| General Comment | See all opinions of this responder |
A large part of what we are doing, is preserving the old rarieties for coming generations. There are still an enormous amount of old clubs hiding in attics all over the world.
I understand that it's hard to make sure everybody is playing with ancient shafts, but personally I think it's part of the experience, the fun and the feeling!
Best regards
Per Fylking
Stockholm | [see all ans] |
What's missing from the Society of Hickory Golfers is this simple mission statement; "to replicate the conditions and experience of historical, hickory era play." When we get further away from that mission, we get in trouble.
I'm in favor of 'tiering' the tournament system.
Locally Sanctioned Tournaments:
This allows the hickory tournament directors broad lattitude in setting . Does he want to play with pyratone; go for it. Does he want to play with pre-1900; go for it. The essence of this tier is to pre-define qualifying criteria & inform people in advance. No problem.
SOHG Sanctioned Tournaments:
This category provides a much stricter set of criteria (hopefully, your survey will help establish). Hickory shafts would be a must. The level of | [see all ans] |
| Thanks for devoting your time and effort in helping make this organization continue to go forward. | [see all ans] |
| I know I have said this a number of times, but more of a concern to me his handicaps rather than what clubs we use. | [see all ans] |
| We need more people to participate in these events and casting a wide tent seems to make the most sense to me, as long as the play is not diluted into a modern experience. | [see all ans] |
This is my personal oppinion.
I believe in keeping it as authentic as possible, otherwise, what | [see all ans] |
I think it is important to make hickory play accessible to as broad of group of enthuasists as possible if we want hickory golf a sustainable thing. Make it too elite or unapproachable because of the difficulty of getting proper playable clubs and it will go away.
It is always possible for the absolute purists to stage events for vintage clubs only. Those are neat events and I will be a participant. But these events, over time, will be necessarily small as the authentic, playable clubs are finite in number and declining with wear and tear. I suggest for most tournaments and other hickory gatherings, let people get started with a good set of authentic reproductions so they have a good experience and get hooked on the sport we love. | [see all ans] |
We want to recreate hickory era golf. To do that we can only use hickory era clubs or new clubs made with traditional materials and technique. But for practical reasons I use doublesided tape to fit the grip and Araldite to fasten the clubhead. These materials are not traditional, but they do not alter the characteristics of the club.
We must avoid complicated techincal rules. If a player fiddles with his clubs he is immediately penalised because he will not experience the sensation of hitting the ball with a real hickory club. | [see all ans] |
This is a re-submission of the survey I sent in a few hours ago. Please ignore the first submission.
Thanks.
Hal | [see all ans] |
| I don't have a problem with replicas or reshafted, regripped original vintage and I don't think it really makes a difference in play. I do not agree with retro fitted out of era clubs. If it's hickory vintage 20's or before then that's what it should be. | [see all ans] |
| The one thing I have learned is that with the exception of beautiful stamped shafts that match the head, the really only important part of the club is the head - I have no problem with a player reshafting a vintage club with a vintage shaft OR a modern reproduction hickory shaft. In my set I have found some wonderful clubheads that due to broken or cracked shafts, I had no choice but to reshaft. I don't think reproductions are a good idea for tournament play - original or reshafted clubs (clubheads) are the only way to go! | [see all ans] |
| A survey usually has an underlying objective which commonly has legislation as an intermediate goal, although it may not be seen as such initially. Enforcement and its consequences are the endpoint which may result in division and marginalisation. Be careful that you do not foul the water we so enjoy. | [see all ans] |
Good luck at getting a consensus | [see all ans] |
| Pehr Thermaenius sums it up very well in his original letter to Tad . I also feel that reproduction modern shafts do not have the feel or quality of original split shafts , I see no advantage in using them other than availability . | [see all ans] |
| I realize that several individuals are profiting from the reproductions and I believe that ultimately it will come down to whether or not the "host" of a particular event bans or allows anything other than vintage clubs identified in 1-1a or 2. We already are aware of some venues that do not allow the reproductions so obviously there has to be some truth to the use of reproductions clubs. | [see all ans] |
| I think as long as it poses no real advantage a reproduction should be allowed to be used. Unfortunetly it is not generally easy to find a good play set of hickories. As long as the clubs are extremely simular in design to something you would find from the authentic hickory era than they should be allowed. | [see all ans] |
| Would not accept new wrap on grips like Wynn! | [see all ans] |
I realize that many people feel any "hickory" club should be allowed so as to maximize use and participation, and I generally agree, but the aboce reflects my feelings as answers to the survey questions.
Barry | [see all ans] |
| While I personally like the idea and spirit of playing with clubs that have been played by someone else 100 years ago,there is no question that younger players( and less affluent ones) would like to enter into hickory play and stable low maintenance clubs would make our game more accessible. I'd like to see all hickories within the confines of past technology approved. If it turns out that the events show inequitable results but the entry increases then we can divide into divisions. Until that time we should make it as easy as possible to play.It's not necessarily about winning ,is it? bob | [see all ans] |
All golfers should strive to play original equipment. This equipment should be maintained in such a way as it might have been maintained during the era in which it was played. (Bobby Jones would have had new grips installed when his were worn, new shafts installed when his broke etc).
Having said this, it must be understood that many collectors have accumulated play set clubs over a period of ten or more years. Golfers new to the hickory program should not be "penalized" because they are unable to locate suitable originals. They should be entitled to carry replicas of clubs that they are unable to locate. To carry a full set of replicas is unacceptable in my opinion.
Pre 1900 woods are very difficult to locate, and may be an "exception to the rule".
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| Most of the arguements can be difused by adding a new division to most tournaments. At the present time, that would mean about 4 or 5 players in that division, but I have no problem with new hickory clubs being used. IN fact, I feel that this can only encourage the growth of the hickory movement. | [see all ans] |
I believe there are too many categories. Suggest you trim them to the following:
A. Antique clubs: original or with minor modifications; i.e. inserts, grips, added weight, etc. as long as mods are within the spirit of the period.
B. Retro clubs: pre-1935 club heads fitted with new or old hickory shafts.
C. Repros: Modern manufactured hickories that mimic the look, feel and spirit of clubs from the pre-1935 hickory era.
All are acceptable for hickory play and for establishing a valid hickory index. I'm of the opinion that none of these categories gives a decided advantage to the player; certainly not in net events, but probably not in scratch events either.
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I believe that the SoHG should lead the hickory field and not get in the position of reacting. Therefore, this position should have been staked out years ago. By waiting, the SoHG has gotten itself into a major dilemma since the hickory playing community comprises a wide variety of original, retro and repro equipment throughout the world. Any attempts to roll back [read: eliminate] any category of clubs will be met with derision, amusement or worse. The Society needs to tread very carefully while traversing this mine field. | [see all ans] |
| GOOD LUCK with this ongoing debate | [see all ans] |
| I admit to being on the far edge of the group. I do not enjoy and as a rule do not play in any mixed events. For me I am looking for as close to a "pure experience" as I can get when I am playing hickories. Than means that the clubs, attire, bags and no carts etc should be as true to the time period as possible. For me that would allow changes that would be normal to the time. As an example it would be completely normal to adjust loft, lie and reshaft a club. You would not put a 1920's grip on an 1880's club but it would be laughable to expect Jones or Hagen to play with a slick grip. I have only played in one GCS "hickory" event I am glad that I had played in the English first or I would never have played again. To see people dressed as clowns flying around in carts playing with all kinds of clubs out of modern tour bags fried my brain. For me it is not about playing modern golf with antique or reproductions it is about trying to recreate golf as it was played in eariler time. The two are very different. I will play modern golf with my titleists and hickory golf when it tries to recreate the experience of early golf. | [see all ans] |
| In general I do not mind people playing with modern heads and hickory shafts. However, they should not be directly competing with individals playing with vintage clubs. | [see all ans] |
I understand where the people who want to play only original equipment are coming from. That's where they get their enjoyment. But, do they play with original golf balls from the era? I haven't been around all that long, but replica or modern balls are used in all hickory events I have played in. The replica or modern ball is allowed because it makes sense. Original balls from the hickory era would be too few and too valuable to play. The same is true for certain clubs. There are either too few or they are too valuable to use. That would be my arguement for replica clubs. And where guys like Pete Georgiady, Doug Marshall and Chris McIntyre are looking for a more original looking replica, I think the same should hold true for replica clubs. They should look like they are from the hickory era. And there is more control in the making of replica clubs where they can be made to not provide an advantage over an original.
I have more fun playing hickory golf than modern golf. I would like for more people to experience hickory golf.
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| I WOULD HATE TO SEE THE SPIRIT OF GENTLEMANLY PLAY EXPLOITED WITH TOTALLY MODERN REPLICATED EQUIPMENT TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE. I FELL GOLF IS A GAME OF HONOR AND GOOD SPORT AMOUNG GENTLEMEN AND FRIENDS. LETS NOT TAKE THE FUN OUT OF THIS TRIBUTE TO A PAST ERA. I REALIZE THAT GOOD HICKORIES MAY BE HARD TO FIND. | [see all ans] |
I play hickory shafted clubs because it brings back the spirit of the course architect. It also pisses off my friends when I shoot lower scores than they do without a $450 driver (in a perverse way that is also fun).
In the late 20's there were fine clubs made that allowed students of the game to break 80 without a problem. I have a set of Tom Stewarts I "stole" off eBay that work fine, although I should reshaft them. Not everyone has the time to collect a similar play set. Buying one from your firm would promote the hickory game, start people thinking about collecting clubs, and be good for your business.
Here is the solution: Have a prize for all-original (except grips) clubs and a prize for those in group 3. | [see all ans] |
| Orignal clubs in good condition. | [see all ans] |
| Most of our current top hickory competitors play with the early clubs and those that play with the category 3&4 clubs have not been able to defeat them. Is that a question of ability or playability? Perhaps the top players should test drive the modern hickories and give their opinion as to whether they feel they have gained an advantaged when compared to their old clubs. Please keep in mind that by far the majority of hickory golfers are just out to have fun and play golf. They are not competitive for the top gross award no matter what they play with. As long as their handicap is established with the clubs they are playing with it should be a moot point. | [see all ans] |
| The primary reason that I am attracted to "Hickory Golf" is to seek out vintage clubs from from prior to 1935 and to put them into play. To myself the hunt and restoration is almost as enjoyable as playing with hickory era clubs. I've also discovered the true greats who play with hickories have held true to this belief and to them I say - Thanks! | [see all ans] |
I believe that there are lots of reasons to let people use replica clubs.Most of them are mentioned in the discussions and have some merit.
Those of us that modify and change original equipment are only doing what players and club makers of the time did to their own equipment.
No decision should ever be made to restrict this activity as long as the the clubs being adapted(usually repaired)are clubs that clearly were in use in the hickory era
| [see all ans] |
Assembling a vintage set is difficult, expensive and time consuming. I now own a score of clubs that have a good appearance but are unsuitable for play. Perhaps a "Purist" Division can be set up in tournaments for those who wish to play with only select vintage clubs and I assume vintage balls, bags, shoes, etc.
Suggest caution on this issue. It is my experience that equipment does not make the golfer. Look no further than the new technology over the last few years and the lack of improved handicaps across the population. At my current club where I play most of my hickory golf rounds I am able to score better than the members playing modern equipment. (tees adjusted) So why exclude someone for non-vintage equipment? Seems that flighting those with non-vintage gear could be the answer and allows individuals to enjoy the sport and exceptional people. Isn't that what this is all about? | [see all ans] |
I think that for the 'Majors'- National Hickory, Scottish, Welsh, English, the Grail etc only vintage clubs with vintage shafts should be used but for normal meetings all players should be able to use either original or reproduction clubs. This will no doubt cause more problems but may be reflected in handicap adjustment as when steel and hickories are played together.
Let's not forget that the game is for enjoyment first and foremost whatever you use and there are far more serious problems in the world. | [see all ans] |
| Those of us who want to maintain the true spirit of the hickory game should endorse "original equipment" period! Any modification other than replacement grips in my humble opinion defeats the purpose in the formation of the original group The Society of Hickory Golfers. The use of any of the types of modified equipment should be relegated to the ranks of introducing new enthusiasts to the game so the costs of having sets to introduce people to this grand pasttime don't get out of hand. After all, most of us are collectors too and we need to cultivate new members so we have an outlet for our collectibles down the road. | [see all ans] |
| Interesting survey! In my opinion,the great disparity among all of us who enjoy the sport at this level is the ability of the golfers-our swings. Hickory shafted golf clubs present a unique challenge, regardless of their origin or state of repair. Played by the rules of golf, hickory shafted golf clubs of any variety don't seem to be the problem to me. Some of us have a problem with those possessing a greater skill in swinging the clubs. I've probably missed the point but I will continue to play better than some and worse than some, regardless of the equipment with hickory shafts. | [see all ans] |
| We started playing Hickory at our club in 2006 and have gotten 20 players involved to one degree or another. If there were no reproductions this would not have happened. There would have been about 6 of us. I personally have absolutelely no problem competing against a player using repros. I like playing period clubs, but I strongly disagree that everyone should be forced to play period clubs because you simply are going to keep too many people out.The game started with an inclusive attitude. The modern "exclusive" attitude is a negative. Let's be inclusive. Dan | [see all ans] |
I want to play with hickory clubs, not collect them. I would love to play with a magnificent set of old clubs but from time, knowledge and financial limitations I cannot get the set I want. I play with a mixed bag of reproductions and originals including a Gates club.
There seems to be an elitist group of collectors who would like to deny us the pleasure of playing with good clubs. This is the reason i have not joined the SoHG.
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| The spirit of hickory golf is in the playing of the old clubs, not just a hickory club. The vintage clubs have their own personality and therefore offer considerable challenge and pleasure in playing -- that is what we should be promoting. | [see all ans] |
I think we should try and replicate the look and feel of players in the 20's. Of course we are using a modern ball that goes further, but then our fairways are now watered.
I would be loathe to do anything that would discourage people taking up the game, not every one has either the time, money or inclination to put together a good set of clubs from the vintage era, although I admire people who have done this.
Having played with both reproductions and originals, the only advantage I see is that with reproductions one will start with a matched set, although even here each of the repros have their subtelties | [see all ans] |
The purpose of playing with hickories is to have a feeling of how the game was played in the beginning with 2,5 hour rounds and pure joy. that can be obtained by playing with old hickories or new ones made as they were in the hickory period. If we start introducing "technology thinking" into hickory golfing, it is loosing its purpose and we can just as well play modern clubs.
Secondly, it has to be easy to play hickory golf. Too many rules is a hinder. If someone has an interest in playing hickory golf, that is the main goal. Not detailed long rules and descriptions of what equipment is accepted. It must be easy for the ones who want to enjoy the pleasure. | [see all ans] |
Authenticity is the biggest issue for me. The more authentic, the bigger kick I get out of using the equipment.
To get modern technology merged with hickory is not for me, but I really do not have a problem with competitors using them.
The reason I play with hickory era equipment, whether pre 1900 or pre 1930 is the personal enjoyment I receive. I do not feel it is my right to make players conform to my tastes. | [see all ans] |
| I thought the whole idea of the hickory play was "to go back and see how it was." We lose that when we begin to use even just new shafts when they are manufactured using modern technology. Let's stay true to our roots. Save a tree and help a collector to boot. Keep it to all antique heads and shafts---------there's plenty of them out there. | [see all ans] |
| For tournaments, there can be special categories for original vintage clubs (handicap as well as scratch), as well as "open" handicap and scratch competitions for vintage and reproduction clubs. Re-gripping of vintage clubs should be allowed. | [see all ans] |
| I am concerned that Modified and replica clubs are adding modern tech to make the game easier. That defeats the purpose of playing hickory clubs, at least as I know it. | [see all ans] |
| IF YOU CUT OUT TOO MUCH YOU WILL HAVE A LOT LESS HICKORY PLAYERS. I WOULD BE AGAINST ANY "MODERN TECHNOLOGY" | [see all ans] |
| I would recommend those concerned about establishing a set of rules on hickory golf to get a copy of "A Guide To the Rules On Clubs and Balls" published by the USGA (phone 908.234.2300). The longer we wait before we put together a booklet like this, the harder it will be to pass on to the golfer in 2075 the fun and joy we get from playing with the hickories today. | [see all ans] |
| I like the idea of staying as near original as possible. Living in Kodiak, Alaska I have no access to tournaments or comparing my equipment to others. It is take an old club: remove pin and head, carefully remove the grip, check the shafts to see if playable, reinstall the head and pin, put the grip back on if it was salvagable, trade for old balatta balls when possible and play golf. People think I'm nuts but they all want to play with me to see how they work. I like the idea of original equipment - trial and error and I try to play by the rules of old as well if the group allows it. | [see all ans] |
Don't make rules which are impossible or arbritary to evaluate and inforce.
SoHG says golfers (players) not collectors. If mods and repros offer no advantage to play, but allow the less well funded guy a chance to buy clubs and play, it's a good thing. Tournements with no people aren't much fun.
My spelling is bad and there is no spell checker -- oh well!! | [see all ans] |
| #7 sounds intriguing...hopefully I can get some somewhere and improve play.... | [see all ans] |
| Hi I am Arlan F. Thuringer and have been playing with hickory clubs since 1974, they are the only clubs I play with. I get alot of looks and ahs from people but good ol Arlan can pretty much keep up with the new generation of golfers. I am 60 years old and carry my clubs through 18 holes no carts for me it takes the fun out of the game, after all golf is a fun game. I enjoy the solitude and the enjoyment of being on the course. I will be getting with Tad as I would like to add on to my hickory clubs. Thank You. | [see all ans] |
| I have played golf for over 70 years, Started with a shortened wood shaft 5 iorn (mashie) was an A player from about 1968 onwards but unfortunately didn't blossom until reaching senior and super-senior golf when I began to win senior and super senior events up to a nd including state and larger events. Emphysema now keeps me on the sidelines; by the time I've hit 15 to 20 balls to warm up I have to sit down to get my breath. I began to collect all kinds of golf antiques 25 to 30 years ago when I could see I'd never make it against the flat bellies. But I'm a traditionalist and have had the pleasure 7 yrs ago of shooting my age to win a 54 hole super seniors of america tournament.Recently resigned from USGA because they have failed to maintain golf traditions and practices and have let TV and equipment makers totally change the gameto its detriment. | [see all ans] |
| Play the old original clubs with as soft a ball as you can find. Sad days are when I break a shaft but I start looking for a replacement shaft that I am going to take from another old club. I have yet to find a source of replacement shafts or plastic wood inserts for my driver or brassie. | [see all ans] |
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